There is no more appropriate appellation than “Last of the Mohicans” when talking about Maj.-Gen. (res.) Amos Horev. He served as the IDF's chief of ordnance, quartermaster-general and chief scientist, and was a nuclear scientist, president of the Technion and chairman of Rafael Advanced Defense Systems. He also headed the committee that investigated the 1974 Ma'alot massacre and sat on the Turkel Commission of Inquiry into the Gaza flotilla raid. In short, Horev can always be found where the action is. “I've lived long enough to remember events, how they happened in real time,” he recounts at his home in Ramat Hasharon. “I don't remember one single event in which mistakes were not made,” he says. “If you don't make mistakes, you have no idea what needs fixing.... Within every victory lies the seed of our next failure, and within every failure lies the seed of our next victory. It's a shame that it takes us so long to learn the lessons from the mistakes we make along the way.” HOREV, WHO joined the Palmah in 1941, recently joined with other ex-Palmahniks in an effort to block the construction of a memorial site at Sha'ar Hagai aimed at commemorating Rehavam (“Gandhi”) Ze'evi. Ze'evi, a Palmah veteran who rose to the rank of major-general and headed the Central Command just after the Six Day War, became a right-wing politician and was assassinated in 2001 while serving as tourism minister. “When [Palmah veteran] Rafael Eitan was a [cabinet] minister, he formed a committee to construct Rabin Park, and I was a committee member,” says Horev. “We built a visitors' center at Sha'ar Hagai that was supposed to offer information to people passing through, but it never opened because an access road was never built. The remains of some of the armoured vehicles in Sha'ar Hagai (photo credit: AVI OHAYON - GPO) In the committee meeting, we made a decision not to build the site in memory of any one specific person so that it wouldn't morph into a memorial site.” The government, according to Horev, passed a resolution to commemorate Ze'evi at Neveh Ilan, but changed the plan under pressure. “Our goal was to tell the story of all the heroic people who lost their lives between Jerusalem and Hulda,” he explains, referring to the kibbutz in central Israel from where convoys to besieged Jerusalem departed. “The [Palmah's] Harel Brigade alone lost more than 430 of its 1,300 soldiers in fighting along this road. So whose legacy are we memorializing? Did Gandhi even fight here? He fought in the Galilee and the Negev. You can build a memorial for him wherever you want, but not here. I mean, let's be honest – if this site becomes a memorial to Gandhi, then it won't be our story they'll be telling.” Horev refers to a piece broadcast on Uvda, the investigative TV program, which showed Gandhi in a negative light. “We did not say one word about Gandhi's dark side,” he explains. “His worldview was very different from my own,” he continues. “I had not been aware of some of the details that were reported in the broadcast, and I was quite shocked. But Gandhi was a combat soldier, and he did great things. And his most important achievement was the Eretz Israel Museum. [But] I'm not interested in talking about anything else.” In battle with Rabin Military historian Uri Milstein once wrote in Ma'ariv that Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's slain prime minister, fled the battlefield when he was commander of the Harel Brigade. “I was Rabin's deputy at Tel Yosef,” Horev relates. “We'd sleep in the barn up above the cows. He trained me and I knew him when he was forming the Harel Brigade, too, which was a success despite the lousy condition in which he received the troops.... Rabin was incredible – he was so smart. If you want to see how brilliant he was as a military commander, just read any of the operational orders he wrote.” In his autobiography Rabin wrote about his involvement in the Altalena Affair. The Altalena, a ship under Irgun Zva'i Leumi command, with 940 Jewish volunteers and a large quantity of arms and ammunition aboard, arrived on Israeli shores on June 20, 1948. In the ensuing confrontation with IDF troops under Rabin's command, 16 Irgun fighters and three IDF soldiers were killed. On page 567, Rabin writes: “I've come to realize that there was no alternative – we must exclude the Irgun. Amos Horev and I climb up onto the roof and lob grenades down toward the Irgun fighters on the beach.” Horev talks about these events that to this day are an open wound in the country's history. In his mind, he has nothing to regret. “There are things that if we had left them as they were, you know what would have happened. Now we have a state, with one army. There are no militias – and on this matter, Ben- Gurion was 100% right,” he says, referring to the country's first prime minister, who issued orders to confront the Altalena. “[Irgun commander Menachem] Begin realized that if a civil war were to break out, the blood of Jewish soldiers would be spilled.... Irgun operatives had to join the IDF and surrender their weapons. Same thing with the Lehi [Stern Group],” he continues. “Did they continue their activity because they thought the agreement was unfair? A democratic state was created, and everyone needed to follow the same rules,” he explains. “I did what I needed to do. I was in the army and I was given orders. Do you think that I knew who had been part of the Irgun? I didn't, and I also didn't care one way or the other.” Amos Horev (photo credit: ARIEL BESOR) Rules of engagement Asked about the IDF's rules of engagement during his time, he says sharply that they were “the same as they are today.” About the Elor Azaria case he comments: “You don't kill someone who's wounded. Imagine if they'd wounded you and then came at you with a knife and cut you up. Whoever does that is an animal. In wartime, when you are fighting, you shoot to neutralize the enemy. Most of the time, the enemy dies, but if he's only wounded and you shoot again and kill him, you are a murderer.” About the controversy surrounding the case, he says that “people involved either have not personally experienced war or they don't know what they're talking about. “Are you teaching our younger generation that it's okay to put a bullet in a wounded person's head? Are you asking if I'm happy where all of this has taken us? The answer is no, not at all.” IN 1943, a number of rapes were committed in the Beit She'an Valley, so the Palmah decided to carry out an undercover campaign to find the perpetrators. It kidnapped one of the rapists and castrated him. Apparently, Horev had been one of the three fighters involved. He doesn't like reminiscing about those days. “Forget about it. It has no relevance to today's world. You're talking about events that took place 60-70 years ago,” he says. “The rules of the game with respect to the Arab community were different back then,” he says. “Do you realize how many problems we were dealing with all at the same time? I was a platoon leader at the age of 19. We were living under the British Mandate. I've never murdered another person in my whole life. I've had to shoot people, but I never shot at a terrorist who was lying on the ground. I would never do that.” David Ben Gurion (photo credit: ARIEL BESOR , REPRODUCTION) A sense of loyalty Horev retired from the IDF on October 1, 1973, just days before the Yom Kippur War broke out. He returned immediately as the special assistant to the deputy chief of staff, Maj.-Gen. Yisrael Tal. Asked whether things were really better back then, as we hear occasionally, Horev answers that “with respect to our ideals,” it was. “We felt a sense of loyalty to each other. And we weren't focused on our own political careers. Whenever I had a disagreement with Rabin, it was over real concerns,” he says. “I was a member of a group called 'The Third Way,' that was founded by former military officials,” he explains. “Once, when I was in Yitzhak's office for a discussion about the Syrian peace process and the future of the Golan Heights, I told him: 'I supported you when you said that we would keep the Golan even after we signed an agreement with the Syrians. But now you're saying that the Kinneret will be the new international border. Are you crazy? Do you really trust them?' And Yitzhak replied: 'So will we never achieve peace?' To which I responded: 'Not if we have to retreat all the way to the Kinneret.'” ASKED IF he thinks we'd be in a better position if Rabin hadn't been murdered he answers without hesitation: “Of course. Rabin wasn't a politician – he was focused on the country, not himself. I was crushed when he was murdered,” he exclaims. “There was an incredible amount of incitement in those days – especially by rabbis,” he goes on. “I should have told him to wear a bulletproof vest. His Shin Bet bodyguards should have thought of this, since the atmosphere was very tense. I didn't warn him and I blame myself for this. Bullets could not have penetrated a bulletproof vest. It's such a shame – especially when you look at today's leaders. Look at the current MKs – they all have inflated egos.” He takes MK David Bitan as an example: “Did you hear him when he recently said that Rabin's murder hadn't been a political act? Take a look at the list of names from the First Knesset. All the members from all the parties were 10 times more quality than the MKs we have today. There's been a historical change,” he says. Horev talks about the Left. “We were leftists, but we still fought for our country. We were very active in those days. Today, 'Left' is a pejorative term,” he states. “I personally never believed that the Oslo Accords would succeed, but everyone has the right to believe in whatever they choose. What I can't stand is when someone says that they are relying on the Messiah to come and save them, that they don't need to take any action themselves. Are they crazy? We had so many false messiahs before Zionism took hold,” he says. “Do you know what I'm afraid of? We came here so that we could be the majority,” he continues. “If we get to the point where the Jews make up 60% of the population and the Arabs 40%, we won't be living in a Jewish state anymore. This would be worse than suffering another world war. Think about what things would be like if we hadn't pulled out of Gaza. They're slowly going to outnumber us. It won't happen in one year – it could take 20-30 years. I don't want this to happen.” So what could be a possible solution? To this he replies with his own question: “Have you heard of the Allon Plan? You should read it.” The plan he refers to was presented in 1967 by Yigal Allon, who was labor minister in prime minister Levi Eshkol's government. It distributes the disputed land among Israel, the Palestinians and Arab countries. The plan was never officially accepted, but it has had a strong impact over the years, especially on the settlement policy. AT THE ripe old age of 92, Horev is still active and attends Labor party meetings. “I'm a Laborite from A to Z,” he states proudly. “I've been serving the public my whole life. This is the only world I know and it's all I ever wanted to do.” Translated by Hannah Hochner. Originally published in Ma'ariv.