Nigerian Ambassador to Israel David Oladipo Obasa says the state of relations between our countries is good, ‘but we are striving to take it higher’
By MICHAEL FREUNDNigerian Ambassador521(photo credit: Courtesy)
Situated just a few blocks away from the Tel Aviv Marina, the embassy of the Federal Republic of Nigeria occupies a large building on the corner of Gordon Street.The size of the structure is fitting, as the country is home to by far the largest population in all of Africa (over 160 million people) and is considered to be one of the continent’s powerhouses.For over a year and a half, David Oladipo Obasa has served as Nigeria’s ambassador to the Jewish state. To mark two decades since the two countries reopened their embassies after a long period of diplomatic detachment, Ambassador Obasa agreed to sit down for an exclusive interview with The Jerusalem Post.It was 20 years ago, in April 1993, that Israel and Nigeria reopened their respective embassies in the two countries after relations had been severed for almost two decades. What is the state of the bilateral relationship today?I think the state of relations today is fairly good. Of course there’s always room for improvement. Life is about improvement, we keep improving. So I think the state of relations is good, but we are striving to take it higher.When you say they are good: do you mean on the bilateral diplomatic level, the commercial level, or cooperation in other fields?Yes, in all dimensions and on many levels.Politically, I think they are OK. What do we want? We want them to be higher.We are looking forward to a situation where the president comes to pay a visit, an official visit. State visits are very important because during such occasions agreements are reached and things are concretized.So we are looking forward to that.At the economic level of course relations between Israel and Nigeria have been there right from the time I was a school boy. In fact, names like Solel Boneh, the construction company, is a household name in parts of Nigeria, as are Israeli water treatment companies. So our economic relations have been long-lasting.Culturally... well, there are spiritual dimensions to cultural relations, like the pilgrimage which many Nigerians make to see the Holy Land. Like I said, there’s always room for improvement. Cultural cooperation for instance. We feel that Nigerians should be able to come to Israel, learn Hebrew and attend universities.Is that currently a problem? Are Nigerian students able to come here easily to study or are there certain difficulties or restrictions in place? There are natural restrictions – here most of the education is dispensed in Hebrew and that’s a natural restriction for Nigerians. Because of the language, there are some areas in the world that are easier to go to if you want to go abroad for education, such as England or the US. So Nigerians usually prefer these countries that have the same linguistic affinities. So these are natural restrictions.Otherwise there is no reason why Nigerians should not come here to study. Of course there is MASHAV, the technical assistance program run by the Israeli Foreign Ministry, but these are merely seminars and certain short-term courses. Basically I would love a situation where Nigerians come here for degree programs in fields such as engineering and medicine.There are already Nigerian doctors who come here for a special one-year program, but we need more of such programs.You mentioned MASHAV. Over the years, Israel has gone to great lengths to assist various African countries in fields such as agriculture and medicine. To what extent are those efforts appreciated by African nations? What I mean is, do you think they build goodwill for Israel? Technical assistance programs by their nature are to foster goodwill and to meet the specific needs of the countries that benefit from them. Of course you know that Nigeria also has a technical assistance program. For Israel, I think it is particularly constructive, the MASHAV program. So I think MASHAV is fostering friendship, making Israel known to the greater world.It’s not only meant for Africans. From what I’ve seen, they have countries from all over the world such as from Latin America and central Asia.I think MASHAV is good, but like I said, we need to expand the scope to include opportunities for Nigerians to study medicine and engineering courses, for instance.How would you say Israel is viewed among Nigerians? We are Christians, and we are also Muslims.As a Christian you read the Bible and the Psalms. In the Psalms, there is a particular chapter, Psalm 122, that talks about love for Israel. So Israel is close to the heart of Nigerians. One, because of this spiritual connection and two, because of the economic relations. Israel is renowned for its proven prowess in certain fields.You know, the Bible talks about God promising Abraham that he will give him the land full of milk and honey, but you start wondering, how is He going to keep the promise since this is a semi-arid land? Yet, from here you have beautiful flowers and fruits of all kinds. So this is the proven prowess of Israel as a country, as a state. And everybody is curious about this. Of course, Israel is also the place with the holy sites, so it is close to the hearts of Nigerians.Do you think the world appreciates the challenge that Nigeria faces combating extremism? In a way, yes. Every country has its own problems that they have to sort out. I think the world is quite supportive of our efforts to combat the threat that terror linked to extremism presents.Does your country’s experience with terror create better understanding for Israel and its position and its struggle against terrorism? Terror is evil. By definition it is evil. So I think that wherever there are instances of terror it is best to condemn it. But that’s not to say that these situations are identical.The situations are partly different.Nigeria has supported the establishment of a Palestinian state at the United Nations. Don’t you think this is a matter that would be better left to bilateral negotiations between the two sides? The UN is the highest level of diplomacy and they have called for this. I think it is still within the spirit because we want the two entities to be able to come together, hence our support which, by the way, is not inconsistent with our stance on the issue. If you look at the history of our diplomacy, our stand has been consistent.So we feel in a way it’s to give impetus to the negotiations, because for negotiations to take place we need two parties. It takes two to tango. Most countries in the world also took the same position, which is to say that the world wants a solution, a negotiated solution, to this problem.Iran is moving perilously closer towards its goal of building nuclear weapons. If Israel were to take military action to stop the Ayatollahs from getting the bomb, what would your government’s stance be? Well, this is a hypothetical question.I feel the Iranian nuclear program is still a subject of negotiations. So I believe it’s a hypothetical question.Since the end of military rule in 1999, Nigeria has moved toward democracy. How has that transition been? Well I would say so far, so good. Democracy is growing in Nigeria. But as you know, no system is perfect. Democracy has been in practice for centuries, and they are still working on perfecting it.Nigerians are not strangers to democracy.After independence we had democracy based on the Westminster system, a parliamentary system. Currently we are implementing the presidential system.Before that we had an interim of democratic government in the early ’80s. So I think so far, so good, though of course we need to perfect it, as do so many other countries. Nigeria is Africa’s leading producer of oil, but about half the population lives in poverty. Why is that the case?Nigeria is a very big country and even though we are realizing quite a substantial amount of money from oil, given the size of our population, the oil wealth cannot be considered as much. Secondly, the oil wealth, by its nature, you have only a few people involved in the production and the marketing of this important resource, not like, say, agriculture where a lot of people are involved. So by nature it does not allow for many participants.So that might explain why we have this problem of the oil wealth not being circulated widely enough... in the general population. But the question is, what would the situation be if we had no oil? Because thanks to the oil we’ve been able to build a lot of facilities, schools and universities and so many cities now have stadiums, etc.Of course this is not enough, because there are so many that we must feed, educate and provide medical services for.Nigeria has more than 160 million people, and I think Nigeria has been able to achieve quite a lot, but there is still a lot that needs to be done.Some have claimed that oil has fueled violence and corruption in the Niger delta. Has oil been a blessing or a curse, or maybe a little of both?That’s a double-barreled question... I think it’s been a blessing. In fact Nigeria is more of a gas country than oil; we have more gas than oil. We are learning from our mistakes, there is no doubt some mistakes have been made. But there are a lot of good things that have come of it. We still have a lot to achieve, which oil can help us to do. It can serve as a catalyst to finance other sectors of the economy. So we are really blessed.I don’t think it is a curse because this is something that God has given us, and God does not do evil. He does not give bad gifts. It is a gift from God and it is good.As for the Niger delta, things are changing.Of course there are a lot of problems as a result of oil-drilling activities. But the oil companies are becoming more alive to their responsibilities toward the people of these areas. They are now more involved in community development of the areas of their operation and the government also is doing a lot. The government has invested a lot in education, because education is vital. With education you can make better use of your resources. With education you can transform your environment.I was in the Arava, near the Dead Sea, and I saw what they are doing and what they have been able to achieve.And also in Nigeria, the system of resource allocation is constantly under review – we have a new allocation formula.There are certain percentages of the national budget that are given to areas that have ecological problems as a result of economic activities. So that part of government revenue is plowed back into these areas.Since the mid-’90s, Nigeria has taken part in quite a few peacekeeping operations abroad such as Liberia and Sudan. Why does your country think it is important to do so?Liberia is our neighbor and a member of our regional economic grouping, ECOWAS.Of course they are not contiguous but we consider them our neighbors. And the Bible says whoever closes his ears to the cry of his neighbor for help, he himself at his moment of need will cry for help and nobody will answer him. So I think it is also in our enlightened self-interest, because if there is peace in our neighborhood, there will be peace also within our borders.And if there is peace everywhere, then everyone will be able to go about their business peacefully and there will be development. Everyone would be at peace with himself and his neighbors. So I think this is important. In any case, it is not just since 1995 – Nigeria has been involved in peace-keeping since its inception, such as in the former Congo in the ’60s as part of the United Nations peacekeeping force. So Nigeria has been known for its contribution to peacekeeping efforts around the world.In recent months there have been growing calls for secession coming from different groups and states within Nigeria. How serious is the situation? Is Nigeria in danger of being torn apart?Well, Nigeria won’t be torn apart. What Nigeria is going through is not peculiar to Nigeria. As a matter of fact it is to be expected, because when you talk of democracy, you talk of 100 flowers that want to blossom, as they say.Democracy means freedom of expression and other freedoms, so people can come together and come up with all sorts of ideas. But as far as your question is concerned, Nigeria will not break up. Nigerians realize that they should stick together because the bigger, the better.I think that we have a lot more in common than that which divides us, so Nigeria will remain one. For a big country I think that what we are going through should really be expected. It is part of the diversity of many millions of people. We are talking about 250 ethnic groups, so no matter what we are doing, I think the world should rather congratulate us! (laughs)It has been 51 years since Nigeria gained independence from the United Kingdom. Looking back, what do you think is the legacy of British colonialism?That is an interesting question. First, the English language is a big legacy. We can both speak with each other without going back and forth between interpreters. English is a common bond and that is very important. And of course I think the judicial system, too.What distinguishes the British colonial system from its main rivals at the time was that the latter had an “assimilation policy” whereby they wanted to make the colonized people exactly like them. But the British did not do this. Nigeria has a certain dynamism and energy, and the fact that the British did not try to make us like them is also a legacy.What is your feeling about Israel’s treatment of foreign workers and its crackdown against those who come here or work here illegally?Foreign workers can be in two categories: there are those who are here legally and work for international organizations and corporations, and these should not have any problems. Where there are problems are with those who are here illegally.The issue of illegal migration is also a worldwide phenomenon. Now even though they are illegal, I think every human being deserves some dignity. They are not common criminals so the treatment that you give them should be different.They are economic migrants, in which case if there is no demand, there will be no supply. No country wants to have illegal people. I think illegal migration should be discouraged. But like I said, there are the push and the pull factors – if there is no demand there will be no supply.Do the Nigerians who work here legally encounter difficulties or problems?The Nigerians here, to be frank, are law abiding – even the illegal ones among them. They are just here to make a living, so they are not criminals. Some of the Nigerians here, both male and female, are athletes. They are foreign workers, too. In any case, the world would be better if people are able to move and interact, get to know one another. Because prejudices come as a result of people not being close to one another.With regard to the Igbo tribe in Nigeria, some of them believe that they are descendants of a lost tribe of Israel. What do you think of this?Well, it’s not impossible; after all, there are descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel in faraway India – the Bnei Menashe. So it is possible.We’re sitting here in your embassy in Tel Aviv, but Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. Why isn’t your embassy in Jerusalem?I believe the international community recognizes Tel Aviv, which I think is a wonderful city. I think Israel has to be congratulated because it is a product of the vision of Theodor Herzl. ■
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